Judo Throws vs BJJ Takedowns

Judo Throws

Kittens take it to the street with Judo Throws

Someone asked me, “is there a difference between BJJ Takedowns & Judo Throws?”

In theory, no not really.  But, in practice and actual application there can definitely be some differences in the judo throws & bjj takedowns.  The reason for these differences mainly come about due to the way these two martial arts are expressed in sport.  The sport of BJJ has many rules to keep its competitors safe.  In addition, the rules of sport JUDO also has its own set of rules for safety concerns.  In order to be a successful competitor, you must know these rules and operate within them soundly during your attempts to throw a competitor.

So, many BJJ fighters will not use certain judo throws that you would see in JUDO because it may put them at risk for “giving up the back.”  Other BJJ fighters will make adjustments to judo throw techniques in order to make it work for their specific game.  Sometimes, these adjustments are frowned upon by JUDO traditionalists because they feel that it’s a sacrifice of judo throw technical soundness.

 One example of this is Rodolfo Viera’s adaptation of the morote seoi nage otoshi judo throw (skip to the 2:09 minute mark):

 As you watch that a couple of times, let the marvel of monstrocity that is Rodolfo Veira wear off.  Okay, now take note of how he finishes his version of the morote seoi nage otoshi judo throw.  First off, he immediately drops to his knees to finish the throw.  Secondly, he drops off to his side rather than directly in front of the person being taken down.  And, he judo throws the person at an angle.  He does this, because performing the morote seoi nage otoshi judo throw with strict traditional form would put him at risk for giving up his back.  Giving up his back to another monster like Andre Galvao would mean he could potentially start the match with a deficit of 4 points, or, worse, Galvao would submit him.

 This is the way a traditional highly technical JUDO champion teaches  a compilation of the morote seoi nage judo throw in competition:

So, what do you think?  What’s your opinion?  Which art has the better takedowns?  Does it make sense to compare?

Either way, if you want to be a better grappler you should be supplementing your jiu-jitsu with some judo training.  If your academy doesn’t offer judo, and joining a judo club isn’t viable you could supplement your training with personal study.

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Comments

  1. langoustine says

    Judo players use Vieira’s version all the time, it’s called seoi otoshi (shoulder drop). I think it’s a false dichotomy to compare a throw done in competition (Vieira) versus a throw done as demonstration (Inoue), because obviously competition-throws either in BJJ and judo are contingent on numerous circumstances whereas demo throws have nice compliant partners.

    • says

      I see what you are saying, but there is a slight technical difference. In seoi otoshi the grips are different. From my understanding the seoi otoshi calls for sleeve grip and shoulder grip. However, the way Rodolfo does the throw it’s a morote grip. However, he does drop to his knees and to the side like the seoi otoshi. Perhaps we should call it morote seoi otoshi lol. =P

      I agree, it isn’t very fair to compare a throw with an uke versus a live fighter. It’s very hard not to point to something that shows “the way it should be done” so to speak though.

  2. Mack Thomas says

    The grips have nothing to do with whether a throw is classified as Seoi Otoshi. Otoshi refers to the dropping action and that uke is pulled down rather than loaded onto the shoulder and lifted before throwing. The same-sided grip Rodolfo uses is common in Judo, as is the method of throwing. Morote is an old way of describing Seoi-Nage with one hand on the lapel and one on the sleeve – now it is just referred to as Seoi-Nage. The method of throwing capturing your opponents arm with your elbow is called Ippon-Seoi Nage. Again, everything Rodolfo is doing in regards to this throw is very common in Judo competition and not invented or adapted for BJJ.

    • Ruben says

      I hear you, but there doesn’t seem to be so many conflicting opinions on the matter of what to call this. I have just about given up.

      I haven’t seen this in JUDO competition. Not this specific way. But, I’ll take your word for it. Thanks for contributing.

  3. Simon says

    BJJ is a form of Judo and pretty much all the BJJ takedowns exist in Judo. A BJJ player trained in Judo will usually be a better grappler than the one who isn’t

    • Ruben says

      Simon, I completely agree. My teammates and I were talking about this yesterday over dinner after the american cup. Jiu-jitsu players who are trained in Judo are much more complete grapplers. Marcelo Garcia and Andre Galvao, to name a few, are two perfect examples of this.

  4. Ares says

    It would good idea one third video of what happens when the morote seoi nage goes wrong, ie, with the dangers of give back.

    • says

      Hey Antonio, thanks for commenting. What do you mean exactly? Are you asking my opinion of wrestling takedowns? If so, I think they are just as important as Judo takedowns.

  5. Ivan says

    BBJ is just a part of Judo. Ne-waza (ground) techniques from Judo form the basis and focus of BBJ. Being said that, a 3Y BBJ student has better ne-waza techniques that it’s 3Y Judo counterpart, but in the other hand, Judo student has a broader knowledge (throws,etc).

    Once you get a certain expertise on Judo, BBJ gives you no added value.

    The father of BBJ, master Helio Gracie, was beaten by the judoka master Masahiko Kimura. With all my respect to master Gracie, broader Judo techinques showed to be more effective, he kissed the floor several times by Kimura’s throws and was also beaten by Kimura superior ne-waza techniques.

    • says

      Ivan, thanks for coming by and posting your two cents. I have to respectfully disagree. I think learning Judo in combination with BJJ makes you a more complete martial artist. I don’t see one art is completely superior to the other in any respects other than what they were intended for. A judoka will always win the battle standing up, and a bjj player will always win on the ground. But, it’s unnecessary for us to think this way. We should strive to learn all grappling arts: bjj, judo, greco-roman wrestling, sambo, etc. The UFC is a great tool to look at what happens when you are one dimensional.

      • Ivan says

        Pleased to post my to cents. Well, I have to admit that modern competition Judo ne-waza has taken some techniques from BBJ or even Sambo.

        UFC? :-D … UFC guys don’t wear Judogi.

        I though we were comparing and discussing about martial art techniques, specifically Judo vs BBJ. In the case of UFC’s fights, there are other base techniques more suitable than BBJ or Judo (Muai Thai, Kick boxing, boxing, “just kick his face”-jutsu…), and honestly, grappling technique doesn’t require to be much sophisticated there.

        • says

          The point I was trying to make is that we, as martial artists, would be better off being competent in all facets of grappling and if we become one dimensional we run the risk of becoming obsolete and not reaching closer to our potential. The elite european jodokas all train jiu-jitsu and that is why they fare better in newaza than most of their western counterparts. The same argument can be made for bjj. The best of the best in bjj all have a very strong judo background as well. There’s no denying the effectiveness of either martial art. The answer is in combining what is most useful to you from each.

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